On this, we can agree. Cheers.

So Joya was elected by Afghanis inside Afghanistan because…? Do their opinions count ? Then there are the views and opinion of RAWA and other Afghans ,which are very comparable to Joya’s.
And do not presume to know who I know, actually I do know some Afghani’s.

You said…”What she told me is that the international forces in Afghanistan ought to be supporting certain factions that she considered to be democratic over the ones she condemned as warlords and gangsters - certainly a laudable idea on the face of it, but which would clearly involve NATO forces staying and essentially dividing and conquering Afghanistan. Get it through your head: MALALAI JOYA WANTS US TO ACT LIKE IMPERIALISTS IN AFGHANISTAN. Not exactly what Stopwar wants to hear, but its true”….

Yeah I have heard her say the same thing,and if in fact the International community had supported the real democratic opposition inside Afghanistan the situation would look totally different.Imagine supporting groups like RAWA ,that are not corrupt imagine the work they could do.
Basically what Joya is saying,is that by the International forces supporting the Afgan government(basically a bunch of warlords & Northern Alliance thugs) the mission is ill conceived and rather than strengthening democracy or helping ordinary Afghans.It is in fact only strengthening the power and reach of the Northern Alliance .Who like the Taliban,are guilty of the most horrendous crimes.
Or to put it another way they fumbled the ball and are naively dealing with the very people,who like the Taliban, are part of the problem not the solution.
In fact here is Fawzia Koofi, deputy speaker of the lower house of Afghanistan’s National Assembly basicly saying pretty much the same thing as Joya;

http://engagedspectator.wordpress.com/2008/03/16/afghanistan-female-politicians-speaks-out/

Call me “naive”, but I fail to see how supporting warlords,thugs and corrupt officials (that make up the government) is a step towards democracy.
Indeed the intervention is in its 7th year and the only thing that is clear,is that the foreign contractors and corrupt government have made off like bandits,pocketing the majority of aid monies.
While the ordinary people have seen very little if any real progress in their standard of living never mind in areas of governance.
You can’t seem to grasp what’s really being said or chose not to.
Its not about being opposed(sure as hell not me) to helping the Afghan people.We are opposed to war and Cnd kids dying to support a corrupt government(again made up of Northern Alliance thugs).This an exercise in futility.
So please stop with the condescension and holier than thou arguments.It’s the height of ignorance for you to state that the hundreds of orgs that make up the Peace Alliance are deceived and or stupid.Like come on dude.
Like it or not there are valid and rational argument that cause many people to doubt the mission.And again after 7 years these reasons and doubts are being validated and strengthened not weakened.
But don’t take my word here is another Afghani & government official ;

http://engagedspectator.wordpress.com/2008/03/01/dr-seddiq-weera-of-afghanistan-addresses-the-rideau-institite-on-the-need-for-a-political-process/

Notice how his points “mirror” many of mine and other critics.
So again easy on the rehetoric,I am not,nor are the people in the peace movement your enemy.
We just believe that there is a better way to help the Afghan people.
A way that like(Joya’s ,Fawzia Koofi,and Dr Saddiq Weera to name a few) takes into account historic and present realities.
And again after 7 years with little progress the NATO intervention seems to have butted up against many of these same realities.Realities they chose to ignore or overlook.
Not because some people/orgs are against the intervention,or refuse to stand up and wave the flag,but because the mission itself was flawed.Perhaps not in intent but definitly in the way it was and is being carried out.
No amount of wishful thinking or the browbeating of critics is going to change that.
Only the Afghan people,with real help,in the right places, can change their situation.

1. Yes, I know that MAWO is (thankfully) a very small group. I hope they stay that way.

2. Yes, the Stopwar people are deceived and stupid. That’s exactly my point.

3. The Canadian Peace Alliance is on record allying themselves with militant fascists who would love to see the West (and not just Israel - Vancouver and Toronto are also fair game) violently ripped apart and subject to Sharia law. This has been documented THOROUGHLY in the media if you care to read. So, yes, my charge includes those people too.

4. Malalai Joya, eh? What you don’t seem to know, presumably because you don’t personally know a single Afghan-Canadian, is that the Afghan ex-pat community and indigenous Afghan people almost unanimously CONDEMN Malalai Joya for the confused and hypocritical message she is sending (and much of the left is eating up without much critical thought).

By the way, you may not know that I spoke with Malalai Joya in person in Vancouver. What she told me is that the international forces in Afghanistan ought to be supporting certain factions that she considered to be democratic over the ones she condemned as warlords and gangsters - certainly a laudable idea on the face of it, but which would clearly involve NATO forces staying and essentially dividing and conquering Afghanistan. Get it through your head: MALALAI JOYA WANTS US TO ACT LIKE IMPERIALISTS IN AFGHANISTAN. Not exactly what Stopwar wants to hear, but its true.

Another thing: the democratically-elected government in Afghanistan wants NATO there, the UN wants us there and the Afghan people, in poll after poll after poll want us there. Unquestionably, the mission has prevented Afghanistan from falling again into the clutches of a brutal fascist regime.

Here’s the question that you and your ideological allies in Stopwar have yet to clearly answer: if “Troops Out Now” will certainly result in an immediate civil war and potentially a regional war causing hundreds of thousands of casualties and displacing millions — how does this help the cause of peace and human rights?

I’ll save you the trouble, though. Here’s the answer: It doesn’t.

http://www.stopwar.ca/about/member_organizations.html

How about these folks…
http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/index.html
what are they

What about Joya.after all “what would she know” that you or Terry Glavin don’t….?

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/273564