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	<title>Comments on: Amnesty International and Strange Bedfellows</title>
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	<link>http://jnarvey.com/2010/02/08/amnesty-international-and-strange-bedfellows/</link>
	<description>Essays and opinions on current affairs and politics. Published from Vancouver, Canada by new media writer Jonathon Narvey</description>
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		<title>By: jnarvey</title>
		<link>http://jnarvey.com/2010/02/08/amnesty-international-and-strange-bedfellows/comment-page-1/#comment-3190</link>
		<dc:creator>jnarvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:58:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jnarvey.com/?p=2388#comment-3190</guid>
		<description>@real conservative, if you can&#039;t figure out on your own why we shouldn&#039;t torture people even if our soldiers are authorized to shoot our enemies, no explanation anyone gives you is going to convince you.

It&#039;s the difference between shooting a mad dog or electrocuting the animal for two weeks. You&#039;ll have the same result in the end, but the first scenario is obviously the lesser evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@real conservative, if you can&#8217;t figure out on your own why we shouldn&#8217;t torture people even if our soldiers are authorized to shoot our enemies, no explanation anyone gives you is going to convince you.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the difference between shooting a mad dog or electrocuting the animal for two weeks. You&#8217;ll have the same result in the end, but the first scenario is obviously the lesser evil.</p>
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		<title>By: jnarvey</title>
		<link>http://jnarvey.com/2010/02/08/amnesty-international-and-strange-bedfellows/comment-page-1/#comment-3189</link>
		<dc:creator>jnarvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jnarvey.com/?p=2388#comment-3189</guid>
		<description>Hey Darren. I don&#039;t argue that plenty of these people picked up in Taliban territory weren&#039;t charged. Frankly, I&#039;m surprised a lot of them actually were.

The problem here is that our soldiers who pick these guys up are being asked to act not just as soldiers, but as professionally trained detectives to the standard of the RCMP. Military courts are criticized for not requiring the same burden of proof or giving those captured the same legal protections they would have in civilian court.

I expect that this criticism has politicized military justice in an unprecedented manner. Presidential speeches and international calls to shut down Guantanamo have certainly forced those running these institutions to look at ways of reducing the number of prisoners. Hence, they&#039;re letting some people go (likely including those who were never charged for lack of forensic evidence, five witnesses and a love letter in their pocket from their local Taliban commander) who probably ought to be chilling out in a prison cell.

Regarding your last question, I assume you mean, what would I do if I were an ISAF infantryman or military policeman in charge of handling those captured during operations? As a soldier, I would conduct myself according to ISAF rules of engagement, which treats drooling brigands with pretty much the same rights a Canadian citizen might get if picked up by the cops for some infraction at the corner of Granville and Broadway. As a civilian... well, I wouldn&#039;t really be in charge of handling detainees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Darren. I don&#8217;t argue that plenty of these people picked up in Taliban territory weren&#8217;t charged. Frankly, I&#8217;m surprised a lot of them actually were.</p>
<p>The problem here is that our soldiers who pick these guys up are being asked to act not just as soldiers, but as professionally trained detectives to the standard of the RCMP. Military courts are criticized for not requiring the same burden of proof or giving those captured the same legal protections they would have in civilian court.</p>
<p>I expect that this criticism has politicized military justice in an unprecedented manner. Presidential speeches and international calls to shut down Guantanamo have certainly forced those running these institutions to look at ways of reducing the number of prisoners. Hence, they&#8217;re letting some people go (likely including those who were never charged for lack of forensic evidence, five witnesses and a love letter in their pocket from their local Taliban commander) who probably ought to be chilling out in a prison cell.</p>
<p>Regarding your last question, I assume you mean, what would I do if I were an ISAF infantryman or military policeman in charge of handling those captured during operations? As a soldier, I would conduct myself according to ISAF rules of engagement, which treats drooling brigands with pretty much the same rights a Canadian citizen might get if picked up by the cops for some infraction at the corner of Granville and Broadway. As a civilian&#8230; well, I wouldn&#8217;t really be in charge of handling detainees.</p>
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		<title>By: Darren</title>
		<link>http://jnarvey.com/2010/02/08/amnesty-international-and-strange-bedfellows/comment-page-1/#comment-3188</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jnarvey.com/?p=2388#comment-3188</guid>
		<description>@Jonathon Fair enough, I&#039;m not sure they&#039;re &#039;prisoners of war&#039; either. But you suggest that conclusion if you refer to them as &#039;returning to the battlefield&#039;.

@Kursk I took the figure from the article Jonathon cited, so do with that what you will. 

Incidentally, we&#039;re not talking about &quot;a few hundred&quot; enemy combatants. This exhaustively referenced Wikipedia article (http://bit.ly/aeyD5y) suggests that the number might be around 50 or so. This second Wikipedia article (http://bit.ly/aeyD5y) indicates that &quot;Since October 7, 2001, when the current war in Afghanistan began, 775 detainees have been brought to Guantánamo&quot;. So that also suggests that the number released would be under 80.

More than 400 of those prisoners were released without being charged. Would you have had them all shot on sight, despite a lack of charge?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jonathon Fair enough, I&#8217;m not sure they&#8217;re &#8216;prisoners of war&#8217; either. But you suggest that conclusion if you refer to them as &#8216;returning to the battlefield&#8217;.</p>
<p>@Kursk I took the figure from the article Jonathon cited, so do with that what you will. </p>
<p>Incidentally, we&#8217;re not talking about &#8220;a few hundred&#8221; enemy combatants. This exhaustively referenced Wikipedia article (<a href="http://bit.ly/aeyD5y" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/aeyD5y</a>) suggests that the number might be around 50 or so. This second Wikipedia article (<a href="http://bit.ly/aeyD5y" rel="nofollow">http://bit.ly/aeyD5y</a>) indicates that &#8220;Since October 7, 2001, when the current war in Afghanistan began, 775 detainees have been brought to Guantánamo&#8221;. So that also suggests that the number released would be under 80.</p>
<p>More than 400 of those prisoners were released without being charged. Would you have had them all shot on sight, despite a lack of charge?</p>
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		<title>By: real conservative</title>
		<link>http://jnarvey.com/2010/02/08/amnesty-international-and-strange-bedfellows/comment-page-1/#comment-3187</link>
		<dc:creator>real conservative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jnarvey.com/?p=2388#comment-3187</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s funny that we can kill or maim but not torture?? But since society decides that torture is the elephant in the room then nobody should be torturing anybody.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s funny that we can kill or maim but not torture?? But since society decides that torture is the elephant in the room then nobody should be torturing anybody.</p>
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		<title>By: Kursk</title>
		<link>http://jnarvey.com/2010/02/08/amnesty-international-and-strange-bedfellows/comment-page-1/#comment-3186</link>
		<dc:creator>Kursk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:13:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jnarvey.com/?p=2388#comment-3186</guid>
		<description>Darren, let&#039;s say that the figure you quote is accurate (which I question). A nearly 10% recidivism rate (amongst the thousands incarcerated) adds up to letting a few hundred really nasty people out to rape, maim and murder in the name of Islam.

1% is too many.

No thank you..shoot on site .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darren, let&#8217;s say that the figure you quote is accurate (which I question). A nearly 10% recidivism rate (amongst the thousands incarcerated) adds up to letting a few hundred really nasty people out to rape, maim and murder in the name of Islam.</p>
<p>1% is too many.</p>
<p>No thank you..shoot on site .</p>
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		<title>By: jnarvey</title>
		<link>http://jnarvey.com/2010/02/08/amnesty-international-and-strange-bedfellows/comment-page-1/#comment-3185</link>
		<dc:creator>jnarvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jnarvey.com/?p=2388#comment-3185</guid>
		<description>Hey Darren. I&#039;ll say that 20 per cent seems like a happily low rate of recidivism for crimes like money laundering, property theft and drunk driving. 

But it&#039;s an intolerably high rate for people whose concept of battlefield targets includes female teachers and students, UN aid workers, commercial airplane passengers and any Jew, Christian or Hindu they can get to with a pair of pliers.

I would also take issue with the definition of the Gauntanamo detainees as &quot;Prisoners of War&quot; -- given that they in no way meet the standard of the Geneva Convention. They don&#039;t wear uniforms or even belong to the armed forces of any particular nation. They are unlawful combatants. 

In conflicts akin to the Second World War, most of the sort of people picked up in Afghanistan and elsewhere would have been executed on-site as &quot;spies&quot;. I suspect the only reason this did not take place is that enough officers have figured out it is hard to extract actionable intelligence from a corpse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Darren. I&#8217;ll say that 20 per cent seems like a happily low rate of recidivism for crimes like money laundering, property theft and drunk driving. </p>
<p>But it&#8217;s an intolerably high rate for people whose concept of battlefield targets includes female teachers and students, UN aid workers, commercial airplane passengers and any Jew, Christian or Hindu they can get to with a pair of pliers.</p>
<p>I would also take issue with the definition of the Gauntanamo detainees as &#8220;Prisoners of War&#8221; &#8212; given that they in no way meet the standard of the Geneva Convention. They don&#8217;t wear uniforms or even belong to the armed forces of any particular nation. They are unlawful combatants. </p>
<p>In conflicts akin to the Second World War, most of the sort of people picked up in Afghanistan and elsewhere would have been executed on-site as &#8220;spies&#8221;. I suspect the only reason this did not take place is that enough officers have figured out it is hard to extract actionable intelligence from a corpse.</p>
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		<title>By: Darren</title>
		<link>http://jnarvey.com/2010/02/08/amnesty-international-and-strange-bedfellows/comment-page-1/#comment-3184</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jnarvey.com/?p=2388#comment-3184</guid>
		<description>Amnesty International aside, I wanted to probe this concept of &#039;returning to the battlefield&#039; a little. Isn&#039;t that the expectation when prisoners of war are released during a conflict? As one random example, Wikipedia tells me that during World War II, &quot;318,770 [Russian prisoners] were released by the Axis during the war and were then drafted into the Soviet armed forces again.&quot;

I mean, considering that, 20% seems like a happily low rate of recidivism. And I don&#039;t really think it&#039;s fair to say that &quot;many&quot; return to the battlefield. Particularly when, according to the linked article, the Whitehouse is only certain about the recidivism of 9.6% of detainees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amnesty International aside, I wanted to probe this concept of &#8216;returning to the battlefield&#8217; a little. Isn&#8217;t that the expectation when prisoners of war are released during a conflict? As one random example, Wikipedia tells me that during World War II, &#8220;318,770 [Russian prisoners] were released by the Axis during the war and were then drafted into the Soviet armed forces again.&#8221;</p>
<p>I mean, considering that, 20% seems like a happily low rate of recidivism. And I don&#8217;t really think it&#8217;s fair to say that &#8220;many&#8221; return to the battlefield. Particularly when, according to the linked article, the Whitehouse is only certain about the recidivism of 9.6% of detainees.</p>
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