Jun 04 2010

It’s Over

“They show up wearing the kaffiyeh and shouting, and they just want to say Israel is bad, war crimes, apartheid, that is all. But that doesn’t make you pro-Palestine,” the brave Palestinian journalist and Jerusalem Post correspondent Khaled Abu Toameh told me. “That doesn’t make you pro-peace. Instead of organizing Israel Apartheid Week, they should be helping with human rights under Hamas, women’s rights under Hamas. A free press.”

From Terry Glavin in the Mark: No Israeli-Palestinian Reconciliation

Thanks to Backseat Blogger for this cartoon depicting the ruthless Israeli paintball assault on the Mavi Marvara Gaza flotilla:
gaza flotilla

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10 responses so far

10 Responses to “It’s Over”

  1. real conservativeon 04 Jun 2010 at 2:33 pm

    Hmm.. I’m on a ship a hundred miles from shore in the sea. It is 4:30AM in the morning, black helicopters show up. Men in black repel down ropes to the deck of the ship and they appear well armed… what do I do, bend over and offer my ass to them?

  2. jnarveyon 04 Jun 2010 at 3:16 pm

    How about… stay the f**k down?

    Funny thing. The Israelis boarded every other boat in the flotilla. On every other boat, the passengers used non-violent means to resist. No injuries. No deaths.

    On this boat, the passengers decided to attack the commandos as they boarded. Not surprisingly, several wound up dead.

  3. real conservativeon 05 Jun 2010 at 10:08 am

    If what they did was correct then why the different approach today Jon, which I detailed they should take in other pages on this site btw?? Sorry, but Jews are human like the rest of us and they are not ALWAYS CORRECT. See it sucks being a part of the human race but you ARE!

  4. Hassan Arshadon 05 Jun 2010 at 10:41 am

    Again there is no way to know what actually went on. Blindly supporting Israel is not a good idea, especially for the U.S. We are fighting two wars right now with Muslims and supporting Israel blindly will not help us dissipate these issues, in fact, Al Qaeda grows from our policies toward the Israel/Palestine problem

    Although I think President Obama handled this pretty well, speaking negatively about Israel will not help the peace process, neither will supporting them. Instead they should let this incident pass and really emphasize the peace process.

    Also, using editorial cartoons like that in a situation where 9 people died is not going to help people come around and meet you in the middle. This problem will never be solved the the people who think they are completely right, this will only be solved by ceding some of your own points and meeting in the middle. It definitely won’t happen by making it seem like a paintball gun is all they went in with and that it isn’t a big deal that they killed 9 people in international waters.

    I’m sorry but it is hard to trust what the IDF does just as it is hard to trust anything the Hamas government does. The IDF is compulsory and they are made up with very young kids that are impressionable, which ironically are the same people terrorist organizations go after for recruitment.

    This issue is two sides of the same coin. But as long as there is blind support for Israeli policies by one side and blind disdain of their policies by the other, without looking at the situation, it will never be solved.

  5. jnarveyon 05 Jun 2010 at 12:10 pm

    real conservative:

    Actually, what happened today proves my point.

    The passengers today did not attack the soldiers boarding the ship. As a result, we’ve got no injuries, no deaths, and humanitarian aid gets to Gaza.

    In sum, I’m right. You’re wrong. Now screw off.

  6. jnarveyon 05 Jun 2010 at 12:15 pm

    Hassan: The IDF DID go in with paintball guns. That much has already been reported extensively in the mainstream media.

    When the soldiers were attacked with iron bars, knives and guns and were on the verge of being slaughtered, they started shooting back with the other guns they brought — the ones with the live ammo.

    Lesson learned: If you attack soldiers with intent to kill, there’s a good chance you’re going to wind up dead. The psychos on the boat got what they wanted. Now they’re chillin’ with the virgins.

  7. Hassan Arshadon 05 Jun 2010 at 1:04 pm

    Jonathan,

    What is reported by the mainstream media is hard to take as fact, considering their main motives are to make money, not to be fair. Also reporting extensively doesn’t mean much if you don’t put the news into context, which hasn’t been properly achieved.

    I am not arguing that the IDF did indeed not go into the Flotilla with paintball guns, and being someone who was into paintball until a few years ago, I will say that I highly doubt that their guns were as colorful as most are.

    Do you think it would be easy to see what is and isn’t a paintball gun in the dark as armed masked soldiers are boarding your boat? If they shot from the copter which has been claimed but hasn’t been proven or disproven, then I could see the activists having a reason to fight back.

    As far as the live ammo point, well they did whatever they needed to survive, and I’m sure the activists were thinking that they were doing the same thing. Do you think the activists just wanted to get into a firefight with people who have guns? I highly doubt any of the activists knew these guns were paintball guns, that isn’t really a big part of non-western extracurricular activities. They saw what looked like guns and they felt like they were endangered and did what they thought was the best. The issue is less about what happen on the boats and more about how it was handled.

    Like I said, there is no way to know what happen. Israel suppressed the media in the boat and shut down all communications as they got their edited videos out. How can anyone not trust their own government (speaking mostly about my American friends) but trust a foreign government to provide documentation, that has clearly been edited, in a fair way? Believing that Israel would be fair is not very believable as well…

    As far as the “chillin’ with virgins” comment well I guess that can also be said for the Palestinians. Lets just wipe them all out so they can be repatriated with their virgins. I guess we can apply that to the whole muslim world as well. I’m positive you aren’t advocating that, however, comments like that only make the issue harder to discuss and add fear appeal to the argument.

  8. jnarveyon 05 Jun 2010 at 2:53 pm

    Hey Hassan. Re: the “chillin’ with the virgins” comment, that’s because it seems like the guys who attacked the commandos were members of a Turkish political Islamist group. Some of their members were actually recorded on video talking about how they wanted to be martyrs for Allah. I’m just taking them at their word.

  9. Hassan Arshadon 06 Jun 2010 at 6:49 am

    Jonathan, people say things all the time and with the situation that is the Middle East, war-hawk Israelis say incendiary comments just as many other nationalities and religions do around the world, whenever ultranationalism or radicalized religion are concerned.

    I haven’t seen the video of the activist speaking about being Martyrs, but I’m sure if their intent was to fit in with the connotations the west expects from the word Martyr, then they would have certainly taking more fire power than knifes, iron bars and other weapons that can hardly to very much damage.

    I hope all peaceful people can live together regardless of histories of the land they have fought for for thousands of years. As far as this issue, I don’t think anyone really knows what happen and both sides will be willing to lie to gain support for their side. The issue should be to have an actual independent investigation to see what happen, but we all know the side that looks worse will claim the investigation was not fair.

    Well it was great talking to you Jonathan. I am enjoying your blog.

  10. hubrislamon 27 Jun 2010 at 10:32 pm

    Mavi Marmara: 600 volunteers, including ~60 press corps, with their own press lounge, to deliver ‘vital’ humanitarian aid?
    So this was a PR job, first and foremost, and any aid merely a necessary cover. The bodies were, of course, available as human shields. Who cares about UN rules here?

    And a one year old child? It’s the captain’s prerogative to take his family, so either he should be charged (in Turkey?) with reckless endangerment, or he should sue IHH for putting his family, and the entire ‘legitimate’ set of passengers ‘in harm’s way’, by way of deception.

    40-50 IHH jihadists boarded independantly; who frisked them?
    Video showed three angle-grinders (used for cutting steel) among the weapons, which the captain claimed were NOT part of the ship’s inventory.

    Many of the videos, perhaps unfavourable to the ‘peace activists’ (oxymorons) have been removed from You Tube by their ‘copyright holders’, including Iran’s notorious mouthpiece Press TV. This is just blatant censorship, with the numerous Gaza movements projecting their own wrongdoings onto Israel, by their claim of the withholding of incriminating video/photos by Israel.

    One video, date/time indeterminate appeared to show someone using an angle-grinder to cut ship’s stanchions – the steel (not iron) bars which support safety chains. Said stanchions are readily identifiable in some video clips, along with other plain ‘bars’, a wood axe/pickaxe handle, and even one apparent bamboo stick.

    Propagandists should emphasize the last as a non-lethal, or less lethal weapon, while censoring out the steel bars.
    I only hope that as much as possible of the original evidence is retained for the Israeli enquiry into Turkey’s aggression.

    Rumour has it that the leading lights of FGM, like Audrey Bomse and Greta Berlin (ominous name!) are having a hissy fit. They’re absolutely spitting mad at the ‘hijacking’ of their carefully crafted Public Relations Stunt; turning it into a classic agit-prop blood-letting worthy of the zombie anarchists in Toronto.

    P.S. FGM is not Female Genital Mutilation.
    That’s another story.

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